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PostSubject: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Tue May 18, 2010 4:03 am

Long-Armed Chariot

I think it's really important for this Boss to avoid most people being Charmed. Found a 6 person fight (DRG, RDM, WHM, BRD, MNK and MNK) where they successfully kited around the 2 teleporter rooms. They pulled it to the place where we zone in and when it starts doing Brain Jack (BJ) they all run to the teleporter rooms until it had charmed the tank 4 or so times. Once it had stopped charming, the DDs resumed killing until the next round of BJ. The drg mostly stayed outta range and just the 2 mnks were in close for most of it. Idk if this was to try and lower TP feed or if it was to keep him out of Inertia Stream range ( 10" ).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXuTpwvvu58
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83rSYRVPyRs&feature=related

Another fight I watched, they had a bazillion items from chest to help them. Barbarians Drinks, Fanatics Drinks etc. This fight had more people. They kited BJ also but stayed in the main room. They seemed to have 1 DD on the mob at a time.

Anyway I think we definately gonna have to run for our lives throughout all the BJ phases. I think this is the key to winning. Guess we will find out next time Razz

If you guys learned anything from the fight, feel free to add it. It will help us build up a body of knowledge on this Boss.

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PostSubject: Re: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Thu May 20, 2010 3:28 pm

Ok, so I only watched part 1/2 of the 6-person LAC fight. Didn't observe anything significant other than those u pointed out, tik. There is one thing though, I didnt know the boss would follow u out of the room, coz it sure didnt come after us in our run, so I'm quite curious about that tbh. I reckon the drg was staying out of range to pretty much avoid feeding it tp and save the healers some MP. So I've got a couple of suggestions for our run:-

- DDs should /sam, except for bon and mike, who will be /nin. But Im not sure if manni has sam levelled D: Also, not sure if bon can tank it alone... Anyway, the idea is to have DDs only go in for WS (like the drg), and Mike will go in only for TA (and WS when he eventually has enough TP) to help bon with hate.

- Also, if tik can keep up with healing, I reckon Daz could go as smn and use BPs to help with the dmg

- If we give ourselves ~15mins for LAC fight, and assuming we take 30mins to sneak through floors 2, 3, 4, we have an hour-ish to farm cells. Notice the drg had all equipment unlocked, and I would assume the same for the mnks too. Rdm prolly has most of their equipment unlocked too, coz they had no problem landing enfeebles.


That's what I came up with anyway. We can try the chainspell stun lock method, but I'm not too sure that would work. I mean, everyone would be doing it that way then, no need for kiting and all that. So the mob is prolly immune or builds resistance to stun very quickly, or prolly just cant do enough dmg to zerg it in one minute Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Thu May 20, 2010 7:11 pm

ha ha ha, not sure if I have /SAM leveled, is the pope jewish....

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PostSubject: Re: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Fri May 21, 2010 3:18 am

It did follow someone back through the door, coz it wiped us all resting out there. I think it will be np pulling it out of the main room. Also 15 minutes for the Boss, may not be enough time. I think we were up there with over 30 minutes and yeah it was chaos lol but I think with time taken from kiting and from not having DDs engaging 15 minutes is too tough an ask.

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PostSubject: Re: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Fri May 21, 2010 12:32 pm

Warning: This is gonna be a long post, so grab some popcorn, sit back and enjoy Razz

oo thanks Tik for clearing up that part about the NM following us through the door. Ok so, after I made my post last night, I had a couple of thoughts. During our run, somewhere near the beginning of the fight b4 people started dropping, there was a part where LAC was spamming AoEs. Thing is, I don’t remember if it was b4, after, or during BJ phase. Also, was it b4 or when the DDs started 2hr-ing? Does anyone remember at all? I’d like to know if the spamming was because we were feeding it too much TP or because it was during the BJ phase.

So anyway, I also discovered a problem with my own suggestion, which Tik pointed out ^ too lol~ I estimated that we would need ~15mins for the boss fight. This was based on the 6-person video, where they took ~12mins. Major {mistake}. I forgot they had 2 MNKs meleeing fulltime, so if we were to follow my suggestion of having the DDs only go in for WS, I’m pretty sure we’re gonna need more than 15mins, mainly due to the long recast for meditate (~5mins), so its not gonna be possible.

So I came up with an alternative, and thought through some of the details. Assuming we have the same people as b4:-

(in no particular order Razz)
Akk – WAR/SAM
Tik – WHM
Daz – RDM
Kei – BRD
Ace – SMN
Manni – DRK/NIN
Bon – MNK/NIN
Mike – THF/NIN

I’ll explain my reasons for this particular setup. Tik, Daz and my jobs are pretty self-explanatory, so I’ll skip the 3 of us Razz Basically, the main idea behind this whole setup is to maintain some form of constant DoT, without feeding the mob too much TP (to reduce AoE spam).

- Bon (MNK/NIN): Pretty straightforward, Bon is the only one who will be engaging the boss fulltime. He will be our main tank of sorts.. Go Bon Bon! /cheer

- Mike (THF/NIN): TA (on Bon) and SA the boss separately i.e. no SATA, and TA WS (on Bon) when enough TP.

- Ace (SMN): Blood pacts! Use whichever Blood Pact Rage you think is most powerful on boss, and probably Blood Pact Ward Stoneskin on melees. But DO NOT have avatars meleeing boss. In between BPs, you can rest mp or help cure, I’ll leave that to your judgement XD

- Akk (WAR/SAM) & Manni (DRK): Now for Akk and Manni… Both of you will take turns to melee alongside Bon. There are a few reasons for this. First is to maintain DoT, but also avoid feeding the boss too much TP. As I said above, I’m not sure we can win if we just rely on Bon alone meleeing fulltime. Second, having only Bon and one other person meleeing means lesser people who will be hit by AoE, so healers will have an easier time. Third, Akk and Manni can shed some hate in between while the other is meleeing, so its easier for Bon to hold hate.

Down to the details! Manni will start it off, and melee with Bon first (don’t forget to Absorb-TP too!), while Akk hangs back and meditates. By the time Manni has enough TP to WS, Akk should be done. So after Manni uses his WS, he will tag Akk in, and go off to the side BUT continue to absorb-TP whenever it’s up.

Akk will go in and WS right off the bat, and continue to melee til he has enough TP to WS again. After this second WS, meditate should almost be up again, so Akk will disengage and stand somewhere safe out of AoE range. Manni will go in, swing a few times/absorb-TP to build TP to WS, and continue meleeing and absorb-TP for a second WS, while Akk stands around looking pretty and meditate by the side. After Manni’s second WS, will be Akk’s turn again, WS straight away and continue melee for a second WS, rinse and repeat.

Well this is what I kinda imagined in my mind, but in reality, Im not sure how well it’ll work. So… really, Akk and Manni will have to coordinate between themselves during the fight. Basically I’m trying to have DDs WS as much as possible with as little swings as possible (sounds confusing O.o?). Akk should only be swinging when meditate is down, and when hes meditating, Manni should be swinging. The reason why I did not suugest for Akk to melee all the way while meditating is to let him lose some hate, which is very important coz he will not have shadows.

Well now that we got all our individual details out of the way, I’ll sum up some suggestions for all of us in general.

- We gonna have to kite LAC during the BJ phases, coz as Tik mentioned, LAC seems to spam TP moves during the BJ phase.

- If someone can clarify the above for us ^ (when did LAC start spamming TP in our run), we can tweak the strategy accordingly. So if say, we find out that the TP spam is during the BJ phase, we might be able to have everyone melee at same time. But if TP spam was due to our 2hr spam, then we have to hold back on the 2hrs.

- Following from above, I feel that our 2hr spam does feed it quite a lot of TP, so I think we should stagger our 2hrs. We got it down to 68% last time when we 2hr-ed right at the start, so I’d say we’re safe to start 2hr-ing at say 30%, one at a time of course. LAC uses BJ every ~25%, so we should start 2hr-ing (one at a time) after the last BJ phase at 25%.

- IMPORTANT! For melees (except Bon). If u guys are dying from AoE spam, and healers are too busy keeping Bon alive, please stop attacking and move out of range. I don’t mean to be rude, but.. the 150mp to raise you can be put to better use like cures and hastes >< Also don’t forget you’ll be weakened for 5mins, so you’ll be out of action, which is not good.

- For Akk and Manni, please go easy on the dmg early in the fight. Try to judge ur hate relative to Bon’s. Its ok to pull hate for one or two attack rounds, but not to the extent where Bon cannot get LAC off u. WS without buffs (berserk, warcry, last resort, souleater etc) if you have to, especially early in the fight and also if u do not have shadows. Think of Tik’s MP!! Also remember my point above about not dying Razz

- Also need to estimate how long we need for boss fight and to rush through floors 2,3,4. As I mentioned in my earlier post, the drg (and prolly the mnks and rdm) had most, if not all, of their gear unlocked. If we can guesstimate how much time we need to get to the final boss and kill it, we can spend the rest of the time farming cells.

Phew… So yea, that’s what I came up with last night and today Very Happy I dunno about u guys, but when I played through this strategy in my head, I can really see it working out for us. Well maybe with some fine-tuning after some input from u guys Razz So… please discuss and feel free to shoot me down. /em puts on a bulletproof vest. Let the flaming begin!



P.S: Blargh!! Didnt have access to internet when I wrote this, so couldnt check the recast on Meditate... Thought it was 5mins recast >.> AND didnt know it only took 15s to reach 100% TP lol.. phail.. Now everyone knows I've never played SAM Rolling Eyes Well anyway, the basic idea still remains the same, but Akk and Manni will prolly have to work out when they go in to melee...

P.S.2: More phail from me. /sam only gives 60% TP lol... But meh, if Akk starts meditating b4 we engage, I'm sure he can toss up meditate again around the same time Manni gets enough TP for the first WS. and after that, its pretty much jsut working out between themselves. So it'll be Akk meditate > Manni melee/Akk meditate > Manni WS & run off > Akk WS. From there, depending on hate and Meditate recast, Akk can continue meleeing to WS a 2nd time, or run off to the side and meditate. Just watch the hate Razz If u unsure, then I say play it safe, better not die.


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PostSubject: Re: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Fri May 21, 2010 1:17 pm

As for the 60% tp from /sam meditate, this is true.

But you usually get at least 10 TP back from your ws, and it would only take a few hits to get to 100%.

I dont think it would hinder your plan at all, which I think looks pretty sound for a try.

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PostSubject: Re: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Sat May 22, 2010 3:46 am

It started the AoE before the Brain Jacking. During BJ it seemed to be following us around trying to Charm. Mostly people were then dying from the severe DoT from being charmed (well thats what was killing me anyway).

An important note with the change of subjobs. You will not have your ninjitsu magic to rely on getting you through the other floors. Be sure to bring powders and oils. There are things that aggro magic and it also takes more time for the mages to have to snk everyone. If you dont have the gil for these, grab the materials and Bon or myself can make you some.

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PostSubject: Re: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Sat May 22, 2010 3:53 am

oo ty Tik, I reckon it was our 2hrs. Watched part 2/2 of the vid and also read up a little more on LAC, I'm gonna add a few more points here as an addendum to my previous post (before I forget them heheh)

- Chariots have a breath attack called Diffusion Ray. Wiki doesnt say if its single target or not, but u take redcued dmg if u stand slightly to the side. I dunno if its possible, but maybe Bon can try to take one step to the left/right, without making LAC turn to face him directly. Also, just in case its not a single target, Akk and Manni should not be standing next to Bon.

- I also realised from the vid the power of temp items lol~ We need to pick up as many healing powders as we can, and everyone should have a vicar's drink. These will come in useful in the last 25% where we go all out with 2hrs and the boss is spamming AoE mvoes.

- Melees should also bring along an icarus wing (ty Akk for the reminder XD)


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PostSubject: Re: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Sat May 22, 2010 5:50 am

something i wanted to throw in to mess up err... prepare you a little more lol, bind, his aoe hit me with bind while i was lining up TA i was bound probably the full length of DD's 2hr's and then charm happened, i didnt get to TA at all and i wasnt hitting the mob that whole time sadly i was facing away ; ; so just saying healers need to do something about bind or the dd's want be able to swap back and forth. i guess if i was bound and swinging at him i could disengage but just throwing that in for thought, cant wait to try this guy again, Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Sat May 22, 2010 7:10 am

Gotcha Mike. I know people were getting bound, but its just that with everyone dying and paralyzed, removing bind seemed less important at that time. Hopefully with this new lesser TP approach, it'll give healers more breathing room to be removing all these negative status effects. In essence, healers will only need to actually pay attention to 2 people, Bon and either Akk or Manni. Rest of us should rarely get hit by any TP moves unless we happen to run in at the wrong time eg me running in to sing songs for melees, as compared to the last time where we had 4 people getting hit by AoEs. So this should actually free up the healers to do more stuff.. theoratically at least XD
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PostSubject: Re: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:52 pm

{Hello!} Team Salvage, it’s me again! Razz Well, after our boss runs over the weekend, I’ve got more thoughts. So we had a total of 3 or 4 attempts at the boss, and I’m sure we all learned a lot from it. First off, I wanna apologise for the major flaw in my previous strat. It was only in our 2nd attempt at LAC last night that I realized BJ would cause some sort of hate reset, because it seemed to me that Bon would lose hate everytime after we kited, it felt like he had to build hate all over again like when we first started the fight. (Then again, it’s my own hypothesis, so please feel free to shoot me down if you think I’m wrong XD) So yea, I didn’t foresee that that would happen in my previous strat (/em dodges all the rotten tomatoes thrown at her), so {I’m sorry.}{Please forgive me.} Anyway besides that, we’ve also got some calls to have a voke for boss runs.

So… with these things in mind, I would like to propose… *drum roll* Operation LAC V1.1a and 1.1b. Basically, in 1.1a, we will maintain the same setup as b4, but I will point out a few things that need some smoothing out. In 1.1b, we will change the setup a little to have a voke.

Operation LAC V1.1a
This is more of a how we can improve our run if we were to do things the same way with the same setup. Tbh, I was debating whether I should post this, kinda afraid people might take it personally >< But in the end, I figured what the heck, we can all learn from it anyway. So please please please, don’t take it personally. I’ll just list down the jobs we had as a recap:-

Both runs:
Tik – Whm
Akk – Thf/Nin
Kei – Brd/Whm
Manni – War/Sam
Bon – Mnk/Nin

Sat/Sun run:
Shu – Sam/Nin
Nil & Daz – Rdm/whm

First, cheers to everyone for making such a great effort for my strat ^_^ Even though we didn’t beat LAC, I could tell everyone was trying very hard to make it work, so thank you everyone =) Ya’ll actually made me feel bad for letting you down with a flawed strat, after all that effort you made to try to make it work >< But, now that we know what’s wrong, we can dooooooo it!! {/psych}

So here are a couple of points which I noted:-
- In our first attempt on Sun night, things were actually going very nicely at the start and even after the first round of BJ and kiting. Although hate was a little shaky after the ktiing, we still managed to get things under control. It was only after the 2nd BJ where things went downhill when Bon died. If you all recall, it’s the part where I asked Bon how he died. Bon was in orange HP, paralysed, and so couldn’t keep shadows up. It’s not the healers’ fault, it was Bon D: I’m j/k, it’s not anyone’s fault in particular, just bad timing (seriously) on Bon’s part. So yea, its Bon’s fault >.> j/k bon bon <3. I’ll explain what I *think* happened (correct me if I’m wrong bon bon). LAC had used BJ on Bon, we were kiting. I’m not sure how Bon dipped into orange HP, whether it was due to the DoT from BJ or he was hit by LAC b4 he was charmed (or both). Anyway, he gets uncharmed after awhile, but we were still kiting. We were all in one of the teleporter rooms, and I assume that’s when Bon goes up and starts hitting LAC >< And by the time we realized what was going on, Bon drops ; ; I know Bon did it with good intent, trying to help us, and truth be told, anyone else would've done the same thing if they were in Bon's shoes, but it just happened to be Bon last night >< So my point is, we need more communication & co-ordination. I think it’s good that Akk started calling out when to attack later on, and we should all work with him. So for melees, if u get uncharmed and everyone else is still in kiting mode, I would suggest to join up with the main group and kite til Akk gives the order. At least everyone will be together when we’re ready to fight again, and not leave Bon all alone to die lol~

- This second point is for the healers Razz Now that we’ve reached the conclusion that BJ has some form of hate reset, NO BIG CURES at the start of the fight or at the start each round (i.e after we done kiting BJ and started fighting again). Yes Tik, no more Cure IVs at the start Razz Bear in mind, this is assuming we decide to go with the same setup as b4 (without a voke). If u reeeeeally reeeeally need a big cure, then go with Cure V, that gives u less hate than Cure IV (in case u didn’t know). But yea, if possible, avoid big cures right at the start. As for other spells (like enfeebles, DoTs etc), well.. I don’t mean to tell you rdms how to do your jobs, I know u guys got alot in ur hands already as it is >< But I’m sure we all saw how shaky hate was without a voke, so we’ve got to be really careful with what we cast and when we cast. Still, I know you guys (Tik, Nil, Daz) meant well despite the big cures and early enfeebles/DoTs, u were trying ur best to keep everyone alive and keeping the mob enfeebled and DoT-ed. So I’m not saying ur wrong, but to try to be more careful with the timing of the spells Razz As a general guideline, I’d say refrain from casting anything on the boss until Akk has gotten at least one TA off on Bon. Like Manni pointed out, Akk had a hard time trying to TA on Bon coz the mob was bouncing around, so if everyone waits til Akk has TA-ed on Bon b4 doing anything, Akk will have an easier time and hate will be better too. That said, it’ll prolly help too if Akk can add a /p line in his TA macro to let us know when hes going in for a TA, so that we can try not do anything that might pull hate off Bon.

That’s it for V1.1a. I really don’t mean to put the blame on anyone, so please pretty please, don’t take it personally. If anything, its my fault for not noticing the hate reset on BJ earlier (and also for being a nab, Bon had to ask me for songs during boss fight ><). Really, given the situation, these things happen, it can’t be helped and it could’ve happened to anyone, so I’m just bringing it up so we’re all aware. As for V1.1b, where we include a voke, its still in the works Razz I'll try to put it up by tomorrow or day after, so be sure check back again XD I just decided to post this up as a little tidbit for u guys to munch on, and hopefully get more input from ya'll.


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PostSubject: Re: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:00 pm

Just so you know I pulled hate with a cure 3 Razz so yeah prolly a reset to it coz i waited for Bon to punch a bit before I cured Smile Stooooooopid BJ ><

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PostSubject: Re: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:09 pm

nice post kei but you got it wrong it wasnt bons fault, it was all YOUR fault cause no matter what it is, remember its YOUR fault.

that being said i agree with what seems to be a hate reset after BJ phase, this is why i srsly think Mnk/War will be better i know that LAC (Largely Annoying C#&T?) hits hard but casting shadows is imo time wasted when bashing him and JA's could be holding hate. i know that shadows save cure bombing but he hits pretty fast and what with TP wiping shadows and doing DMG im SURE that if we work on 1 person DEF tanking over blink tanking will help us.

on another note i was reading summin cant remember where saying how you can force LAC out of BJ phaze by giving him the requied amount of charms now im thinking and this is prolly a dangerous strat but MAYBE if we give him these i belive it to be 4-5 charms and put a RDM on them to kite them bind grav fuck it bio to weaken thier atks if you have to w/e idc how or what you do to em charm only last for 90 seconds anyway. so the 1st person can prolly be the last person also so for instance say Bon x2, me, Manni, Shu, give him his charms while mages run away
and if all DD's charmed LAC aint bashing us, and mages have a good head start on run away i have read a strat similar to this the only problem i can see is a DD dying B4 all DD's are charmed or when the 1st DD wakes up he gonna be in middle of LAC and 3 DD's but he BJ's pretty fast so ionno

either way the problem's i can see where we are going wrong is 1. holding hate, 2. keeping out of the way for BJ

this is summin like what i mean

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMcQ-MaQwXM

take a look Razz

maybe if we could find a PLD for better hate control AND try the all DD's get charmed all rolled up into 1 strat might be another way to skin a cat as it were but we'll see.

and im happy to keep trying this till we win i understand that losing sucks but its a mega boss its ment to be hard let see if we cant keep doing this but ill keep working in different area's so we dont get bored^^

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PostSubject: Re: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:55 pm

Yea its always my fault ; ; Akk, I've got a small section on my thoughts for mnk/war, right at the end of V1.1b. And I remember where u saw that part about needing to charm a number of times, it was in the 6-person vid that Tik posted. Was something one of the guys in the vid said. lol im about to gun u down Akk, get rdy for it Razz First I'm not too sure about landing bind/grav. Daz never managed to land any of those despite all the gear he had unlocked, so I'm with Tik on this, that LAC might be immune, or highly resistant to them. Another thing is, dont forget that BJ has high DoT, if all DDs get charmed, healers gonna have a hard time healing pple later on coz everyone be half dead lol.. and they may end up pulling hate with al lthose cures >< On the other hand, having regen on DDs can help counteract the DoT from BJ, but its also tough for healers to have to keep a regen cycle for all DDs... Just some food for thought there Razz

Anyway I'm gonna just post up what I wrote earlier b4 I read Akk's post lol, dont feel like fixing it heheh.

Operation LAC V1.1b
Setup will be a little different if we wanna have a voke. New jobs for Akk and Manni! Main idea remains pretty much the same, just some slight changes.

Akk – War/Nin (or /Sam)
Manni – Drk/Sam

Pretty straightforward for Manni, basically just stand aside, Meditate/Absorb-TP and go in only for WS. As for Akk, I cant decide between /nin and /sam, but either way, I’m thinking Akk should only voke once at the start of the fight and at the start of each round (i.e. after we finish kiting LAC). I’ll just state my reasons for the 2 different SJs, and if I overlooked anything important regarding the different SJs, please bring it up too, then maybe the choice will be clear or we can take a vote or summin XD

War/Nin:
- Shadows will help to mitigate dmg from normal hits upon the first voke, and save the healers some MP. This is the main reason why I can’t decide. If Akk goes /sam, he will take quite abit of dmg after the voke (while Bon is trying to get hate), healers will have to cure bomb him, and end up pulling hate anyway, which just kind of negates the whole point of having a voke.
- With no other way to build TP, Akk will have to melee fulltime with Bon. This means more TP for the mob, and more TP spam. Tik also prefers to have only Bon in there engaging.
- My idea for /nin is to have Akk only voke once at the start of each round to keep the mob from going after the healers, and just bounce hate with Bon thereafter.
- With Akk meleeing alongside Bon, we get higher DoT, but at the expense of more TP spam from the mob of course.

War/Sam:
- My only real concern for this SJ is the lack of dmg mitigation from /sam, as I said ^. Then again, Akk should only get hit for that short while after a voke, and he should be fine afterwards when Bon manages to get enough hate. So the question is, how much dmg will Akk take in that time for Bon to pull the mob off him? Will the hate from the cures > hate from voke? If healers have to cure Akk sooo much that they pull hate, Akk will naturally voke again, Bon wont be able to get LAC off him again, Akk takes more dmg, healers cure more and pull hate, Akk vokes again, rinse and repeat. It’s a vicious cycle really =/ Once that happens, I foresee Akk will drop very fast, followed by the healers…
- With /sam, I’m thinking Akk should not actually bounce hate with Bon, unlike /nin. 3 reasons. First, with no dmg mitigation, it does not make sense for Akk to bounce hate and take dmg. Second, Akk can sit out and meditate TP and go in for WS (assuming he survives the initial voke and Bon manages to get hate). This feeds less TP to the mob, lesser TP spam. Third, only Bon will get hit by AoEs, so healers have an easier time.
- Another concern is that we might not be doing enough dmg if Akk only goes in for WS. If we look at our Sat and Sun runs, the mob went down much much faster in our Sat run, where we had Bon and Manni meleeing, and Shu going in for WS. We actually managed to get the mob to 75% (I think?) or so in a shorter period of time. But in our Sun run, it went by much slower, albeit safer, with only Bon meleeing, and Manni going in for WS. I reckon it’ll be a slow fight like Sun’s run if Akk goes /sam, so we have to be ready for that. And if it does turn out to be slow, my other concern is whether we have enough MP for a drawn out fight.

So yea, that’s pretty much it for 1.1b. Tbh Akk, I’m quite skeptical about going down the “blood tank LAC with an all defense mnk/war” path.. I really don’t think mnk is meant to be a blood tank like pld, and even if Bon were to go all defense, I feel he’ll still take a lot of dmg. It’s like asking a nin to tank without shadows (like a pld). At any rate, it’ll take a lot of work to make it work for us. Bon will need to get a whole set of proper gear for that, and we’ll need a truckload of healers to keep him healed. And also lots of DDs to take down LAC fast, coz the healers wont have enough MP to keep up with the healing if the fight drags on too long. Anyway, maybe you could post up that vid of the mnk/war tanking, and I’ll see if we can make it work for us? I’m too lazy to go search Razz The other easier alternative of course, is switch the strat around, and have Akk main tank as War/Nin. That might be more feasible for us at least, than an all defense mnk/war, but then you’d have to consider the additional TP that we’re feeding the mob, and the additional workload on the healers. That said, I’d still pick War/Nin for Akk if we want a voke. I think LAC’s normal attacks are actually worse than its TP moves, so shadows really help. I mean, we did much better in Sun’s run, as compared to the other tries where Bon either did not have magic or SJ unlocked.

As for the rest of us, there’re not many changes really, just some things to look out for to improve our run =) It’s why I posted up 1.1a. Yes, I do still feel (very strongly) that it can be done without a voke. Sun’s run was a good example, coz we had the proper stuff unlocked to actually stand a chance against the boss. I think we did quite well, and I actually thought we might win… Until Bon died heheh… So yea, we were definitely going the right way, and I’m sure we will do better next time if we can manage our hate and co-ordinate better. Anyway, if anyone has other ideas, post them up too, so we can discuss Very Happy So cmon guys, more input! I’m sure I must’ve overlooked some stuff, so post them up! At the very least, vote for which strat u prefer (1.1a or 1.1b), and if u pick 1.1b, which SJ for Akk XD

We already know how to beat the boss, it’s just a few kinks here and there that need to be straightened out. And once we get them sorted out, it’ll be a beautiful win for us all, I’m sure of it! We’re getting there! cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:12 pm

Just a note if Akk goes WAR/SAM, wont Seigan+Third Eye take some hits for him after the initial voke, or will LAC's standard attacks go straight through it?

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PostSubject: Re: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:49 am

yes /sam and third eye will take 2 maybe 3 hits from LAC also summin i have noticed is LAC does miss me a lil bit on my thf i know thf has best EVA but.... BUT a nin tank could be possable, but would need a HUGE eva set up then would it do enuff DMG to hold hate but then it could /war for voke ionno.

i did post a video of a 6 man pt killing LAC look on ^ post 2 x MNK/NIN, WHM, BRD, 2 x THF/NIN, may be 1 THF, 1 RDM cant see last person to see but thats not TOO different from our own setup watch video above in that they make sure 2mnk n whm get charmed so they not being bashed by pt members while the thf n brd kite watch it, it is good

kei i wouldnt worry too much about a 2nd DD for TP Spam as they can use a 2 handed weapon this i feel wont cause a overload of tp but we'll see

this is post for the mnk/war i know thay got 7 but he seems to tank it just fine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzFw0ELeeOI

hope this helps.

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PostSubject: Re: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:53 am

Ok so I don't know for sure about this at all, just a theory but........

I'm thinking that all the cool drinks that the other people have in the videos that we don't ever seem to get, maybe drop from stuff on the fourth floor. Not sure if we've ever killed anything on that floor so I'm not sure if they are hard mobs or even if they do drop the chests but maybe its summin we could look into one day. There are drinks that would be handy for everyone. Pax for mages (enm-) Monarchs for the DDs just WS (TP gain) Fanatics for the tank (Invincible woooo).

We kill on floor 1 and 2 and dont get cool drinks, is why im thinking maybe 4. Anywho thats my thought for the day.

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PostSubject: Re: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:46 pm

w00t thanks for ur replies guys.

Good point Manni, I forgot about Third Eye and Seigan. But I'm not sure how reliable they are... Just wondering coz I wasnt paying attention, how well did they work for u, Manni? Just a rough % of how many attacks u anticipated with Third Eye etc? I think u had to use voke once or twice right? Was Bon able to get it off u b4 u took too much dmg? Would be nice to know XD

Akk - I'm with you on having a second melee using a 2-handed weapon, is why I voted for you to be war/nin so we get voke and u attacking too XD But Tiks our healer so.. u gonna have to convince her Razz

Tik - That would make sense Tik, we never got any of those cool drinks b4.. And I dont recal ever killing anything on floor 4. That said, I reckon floor 4 would be just as tough, if not worse, than floor 3. All archaic machinery too. We could possibly give it a try, just gotta manage our time.

PS. Havent watched the vids yet. I'll prolly post summin when I do XD
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PostSubject: Re: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:30 pm

Ok guys, so I went and watched the 2 vids which Akk posted, and here’s what I got:

First Vid (the one with 6 people)

Setup:
Mnk/nin
Mnk/nin
Brd/whm
Rdm/whm
Thf/nin
Whm/???

As Akk mentioned, their setup is pretty similar to ours. Only differences I see really, is:-

1) they had a 2nd mnk/nin to bounce hate with, prolly helps with the tanking, coz theres a lesser chance of getting caught without shadows.

2) they had better hate control than us.

All in all, nothing too different from what we did.


Second Vid (the one with 7~8 people)

Setup:
Mnk/war
Sam/war
Rdm/whm
Whm/???
Thf/nin (left midfight)
Brd/whm
Cor/dnc
Drk/sam (only engaged at the end)

Ha! I hit the nail right on the head for this one, Akk! Lots of healing & support and DDs to take it down fast (Kei:1, Akk:0). Anyway, I’ll divide the fight into 4 parts i.e. every 25% of LAC’s HP, and run through how they did it:-

1) mnk/war tanked the first 25% with voke, JAs and all that, AND plenty of healing and support. They had rdm, whm, and cor/dnc spamming cures and curing waltzes. Heh so once again, I was right when I said mnk/war was a cure sponge (Kei:2 Akk:0), look at all the cures he needed at the start. Wouldn’t have enough mp to keep up if they continued like that. BUT they managed to get it down to 75% quick (b4 they spent too much MP) because 1) /war prolly helped with dmg output, 2) he had cool drinks like champions drink, fighters drink etc, c) additional support from cor (samurai roll).

2) Sam/war tanked the next 25%. Again, he would’ve been another cure sponge, BUT he had a fanatics drink (or w/e, the one that gave invincible). The sam 2hr-ed right after he used the invincible drink and just solo-ed light SCs by spamming Tachi:Kaiten. I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen this WS b4, so I’m betting it’s a mythic or maybe even relic WS.. I dunno, haven’t even unlocked sam yet XD Maybe someone can clear it up for me? Anyway, as I watched him 2hr and WS over and over again, I was thinking, “holy shit, hes soooooo dead after this, no way anyone can pull hate off him now”. So invincible eventually wears, and he’s dead, or so I thought. But then, he gets BJ-ed (he was able to get it down to 50% with his 2hr) just as invincible wore. Very smart move there, didn’t see it coming at all lol XD Also, invincible really helped, LAC got one hit in (~480 dmg) b4 he used the drink. Even with cures, he wouldn’t have survived long enough to pull out so many WSs and get it down to 50% if not for invincible. Whoever came up with this plan for the sam is a genius lol~

3) Mnk/war went back to tanking the third 25%. This time he 2hr-ed to quickly get it down to BJ phase, again to reduce the amount of healing. Nothing special worth noting.

4) Last 25%, they pretty much just went all out and the healers just spammed cures. The drk/sam only joined it to attack here. Nothing much here to note either.

I would say they were zerg-ing, but it’s not the “rush in and clobber the mob to death in the shortest time possible” sort of zerg. They zerg-ed strategically. And look at the gear they got! Lotsa endgame stuff. Well that, and also all the cool drinks. That’s why they were able to take it down quick b4 they took too much dmg. It was very well planned zerg, especially the sam 2hr part.

I also noticed that in one of the vids (don’t remember which), the whm would flash LAC right as it uses BJ.. Cant figure out for the life of me why they would do that.. I’m sure its not a coincidence, they did it every single time right on the dot, so it must help with something. Any ideas, anyone?

Other than that, I came up with another theory for BJ. I noticed in our run that LAC used BJ at ~80%... But then, LAC also used BJ right at the 25% mark in all these vids. So I’m beginning to think that there may be 2 ways of triggering BJ:
1) 100% BJ every 25%, and
2) randomly throughout the fight, but low chance of occurrence i.e. instead of using other TP moves like Discharge or Inertia Stream, LAC may use BJ. The implication here is that if we feed it lesser TP > less chance for it to use a TP move > lesser chance of a BJ occurring b4 the 25% marks, and this saves on kiting time.

I just feel I should highlight that there *may* be a difference between the 2. Akk suggested we give LAC the required no. of charms (which is a good idea btw), to stop the BJ phase. I’d think this would only apply for those which occur every 25%, because that’s the phase where LAC spams TP moves. Looking at the vids, it seems to me that its not a guaranteed BJ everytime. Seems like LAC would randomly spam TP moves, but with a higher chance of BJ.

As for the BJs that occur randomly at other times, I’m thinking LAC may not continuously BJ after the first. But I’m not too sure about this, anyone remember? Because if that’s the case, the poor victim would just stand there taking hits, praying for a BJ that would never happen. In that case, we’d have no choice but to kite til our tank is uncharmed. We could possibly give it a try for the random BJs, I’m just bringing it up so that the poor victim can get ready to run if they feel like its not gonna BJ them, no need for unnecessary deaths Razz

So after watching the 2 vids, I don’t think we’d stand a chance with a /war tank, sorry Akk ; ; We just don’t have enough people, so there’s not enough support for the DDs to take it down fast enough, and on top of that, we don’t have l33t gear like those people. On another note, although it feels weird to vote for myself, I’ve decided to vote for Operation LAC V1.1b, with Akk as war/nin (where’re everyone’s votes? ><). As much as I would like to see us try without a voke, I think we’re not quite ready for that yet.

Also Tik, I remember now! There were some cool drinks on the 3rd floor, not a whole lot, but some. Its in the room with the archaic gears and that crazy imp that just flies around. I seem to recall that we got some nice temp items from the 4 chests in there. Only concern is time, so to save on time, someone can head to the teleporter room as we’re killing the last gear, but wait til we’re done looting the chests b4 porting.
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PostSubject: Re: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:40 am

Just wanted to add that I don't think its a random TP move with the BJ coming at an odd % Its timed. Just means we weren't doing enough dmg to get to the 25% mark in time. What makes me think its time? Well i watched Akk kite it when everyone was dead and after some time - I'd be tempted to say 5 minutes but I didn't time it - it went and BJ him with no-one feeding it TP or damaging it in anyway. I really don't think its a random chance TP move, just a timed thing.


And I'm not sure what video the whm was flashing, coz I only watched part of them over Akk's shoulder (guilty admits not doing homework) but I saw one where the whm was always getting charmed. If this was same video I'd be thinking flash is too make sure they were gonna be charmed. Not gonna die the DD's if your charmed Wink


Anywho I'm onry gonna flash IF we want me charmed. I pull hate enough without bringing flash into the equation Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:12 am

oo ok, so safe to say that LAC does a BJ either at 25% mark, or after a certain amount of time passes?

About the whm getting charmd, I feel it was more of a coincidence, rather than on purpose.. the whm actually tried to run away b4 he got charmed, if he had planned on getting charmed, he would've just stood there? or maybe it was just a nervous reaction on his part, i dunno lol~
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PostSubject: Re: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:35 pm

nah kei the WHM gets charmed everytime thats no coincedence the 2mnks and the whm everytime im sure this is to stop what is probably the most important ppl from dying

and if mnk/war is too much of a cure bomb and you run out of mp can then always kite to regain mp.

and gears dosent make the player i seen players with uber gear and they been complete arse and that endgame gear you talking about them having thats salvage gear which they must have completed the boss b4 to even have that gear the reason it looks so easy is cause they are obviously very well practised

i agree that i dont think we can out put as much dmg as that sam WS spam but if a war goes into the fight after 1st BJ pahse with 100tp 2hr WS ici wing WS thats gonna do some nice dmg can even stick a asuran fists on end to make a darkness SC if ya want i know we aint gonna be as smooth as that but it does show that a mnk/war can tank at least 2 if not 3 rounds with LAC between BJ's so its not a cant be done and we go into LAC with what a WHM, BRD, RDM, thats 3 healers with convert and benediction and devotion n martyr and ballad and fresh maybe im wrong but seems like alotta mp to me

i was also thinking that possably not mhk/war try mnk/dnc animated flourish is just as good as a voke and a step takes no time at all to get a finishing move and would maybe take the presure off the mages the problem in this will enuff hate be produced by the tank if tp is being spent on dancing inono

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PostSubject: Re: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:06 am

I dunno, but it could be because the whm had the most hate (after the 2 mnks), which is why LAC went for him?

Gawd Akk, ur impossible lol >< I agree uber gear doesnt make the player, but gear + skills does.. And it certainly does help in a zerg.

Well I'm happy to give it a go if we wanna try Twisted Evil /em looks at Bon and Tik. They're the main stars, we need them to give the green light Razz But dont count on my brd to cure continuously, I barely have enough mp to do three cure 3s in a row with full gear on >< so prolly only enough for two cure 3s in a row in salvage.. I'd pick mnk/war over mnk/dnc though. The problem with mnk/dnc isnt the hate, but the dmg. Like u said Akk, most TP will be spent on dancing, so not much left for WS, which means the fight wil lturn out to be a fight for survival rather than to defeat the boss >< Slow death basically lol~
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PostSubject: Re: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:09 pm

MP for me isn't that big a problem. I sat at 900+ most of the fight last night. I have refresh from ring, body, sanction and sj even w/o the ballad n refresh spell. Having to cure another person or 2 wouldn't be too much problem. At least til they get charmed and all start swinging at me Razz Also I grab and save any ethers/mana powder or w/e on the way up for just incase I run low. Having 2 WHMs was good, I felt there was plenty of healing power there last night.

Bon having a voke was good too imo. I didnt pull hate from him once. It even made it safe right after BJ phase. All in all, it was a much more controlled fight. Problem seemed to be enough dmg this time and also only 25 minutes on the boss. Prolly need to aim for more DD and maybe 40 minutes.

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PostSubject: Re: Long-Armed Chariot (LAC)   Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:13 pm

We lost alot of time juggling its HP above and below 75%

The first time we got it to 75% it BJ and was kited but it managed to just get its hp back up over 75%, and when we attacked and got it down again we had to go through the BJ phase all again, and a third time. Don't know about others but Daz said DoT's weren't lasting long on it not sure how many he was using though and I can't find its regen rate anywhere.

Not sure it can be helped though, can't really stop to cast while its being kited for fear of death from LAC or charmed person.

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